Coffee Chat With: Jonny on Star Wars (@JournalsoftheWhills)
☕️ Diving into Star Wars universe & literature on Star Wars Day.
Hello There, folks!
Welcome to the introductory chapter of a galaxy far, far away… 🌌✨
One lovely evening on Star Wars Day, I found myself lounging in the Cantina with someone special. We had blue coffee in hands & sacred texts sprawled from the archives. We shared the unraveling mysteries from across the galactic regions & nerding out over lore.💫
Alright, now it’s your turn to go grab your drinks & enjoy reading our exchange of Star Wars Universe & Literature!
PART 1: The Introduction.
Figu: Hello, thank you for spending some time with me! Before we navigate deeper into the galaxy, mind to share a bit about yourself? 😄
Jonny: Hi, I’m Jonny, just a 46-year old man who has been a Star Wars fan for at least 40 of those years. I’m a husband, a father to two children & a lawyer by day. I seem to have a habit of turning my hobbies into projects that take on a life of their own.
Figu: And I truly admire that! I’m curious—what inspired you to start your page, & how did the name come about?
Jonny: After a few years of reading slumps, I began to make a concerted effort to catch-up with the new Star Wars canon in early 2020. The High Republic was just starting & I was increasingly impressed with the quality of the storytelling, the amazing pool of writers that were working both on that project & on the franchise as a whole.
I really wanted to have conversations about this stuff but as is true for many of us, I didn’t really know anyone in my circles of family & friends who was reading this stuff.
So I decided to start writing & publishing reviews of the Star Wars books that I was reading; I figured that there should at least be some sort of output after all the time that I was spending reading the material. That’s what prompted the creation of my Instagram: journalsofthewhills.
The account name is a reference to the ‘Journal of the Whills’ that has only ever been mentioned twice in Star Wars fiction (so far as I’m aware). We know little about it other than it appears to be an in-universe text containing wisdom & history from the galaxy far, far away. It popped up first in the prologue to the 1976 Star Wars novelization.
Based on a shooting script & containing a number of differences from the finished film, it was ghost written by Alan Dean Foster, though George Lucas’ name appears on every edition ever printed. Alan Dean Foster would again reference the Journal of the Whills in a short quotation that opens his novelization of The Force Awakens.
I didn’t know what I was going to find online when I started my account. I know the online Star Wars fandom is often characterized as toxic, full of hot takes, clickbait & prone to argument. So I wanted my account’s name to reflect straight away that I was more interested in the deeper cuts than in hot takes easy ‘likes’.
The hope was that I would at least attract Star Wars fans who were interested in having sensible conversations about the material.
What I didn’t expect to find were so many other warm welcoming & wonderful Star Wars fans & readers who also shared that vision. 3 years later I’m still going & somehow accidentally started a podcast along the way.
PART 2: Exploring into Star Wars Universe.
Figu: I’m so glad to have found you & the community! Jonny, what sparked your interest in Star Wars in the first place? When & how did that happen? I have the whole day—tell me everything!
Jonny: I saw the original Star Wars movie in October 1982. It had its UK TV premiere on a Sunday evening & older brother convinced my parents to record it from the TV onto VHS tape. The following week was the traditional October/Halloween half-term school holiday, my brother & I watched that recording 3 or 4 times a day for a week. I was 5 years old & found it exciting, weird & was immediately obsessed.
Shortly after that, I bought my first Star Wars action figure; the Cloud Car pilot. I hadn’t seen The Empire Strikes Back & wouldn’t see it for another six years (it wouldn’t arrive on UK TV until 1988). That Christmas was our Star Wars Christmas; lots of Kenner action figures, ships & other vehicles kept us playing Star Wars for a while.
The following summer, 1983, my first ever trip to the cinema was to see Return of the Jedi. Jabba the Hutt was a bit scary, the Emperor was creepy but Ewoks were funny, Luke was a Jedi Knight & the Death Star went bang again. It was perfection, to me.
Beyond the toys, the obligatory school bag & lunchbox, we didn’t have much Star Wars merchandise. A Marvel comic annual from 1983 lurked on our bedroom shelves for years, though I always found some of the imagery & ideas in it a slightly terrifying; Artoo & Threepio are trapped on world run by killer droids; Leia is on a strange mission on a pretty world when some guy she is with is killed & turns out to be an android; Luke has to eject from his X-Wing & stranded in space.
It was all very odd, but it was Star Wars & we took what we could get. We watched the Ewoks & Droids cartoons & I saw at least the first of the live action Ewoks movies.
But slowly, Star Wars was fading from popularity. Everyone seemed to move on… He-Man, Transformers, Action Force (known as GI: Joe in other parts of the world). These all moved in to fill the void.
As a young teenager in the early 1990s, I won a book token & walked into the nearby city center to see what I could buy. Drawn to the Sci-Fi section of the bookshop, I immediately saw the only Star Wars book on the shelf; a paperback compendium called The Star Wars Trilogy, containing novelizations of all three Star Wars movies. The first one was written by George Lucas himself ! (Little did I know…)
Through talking to friends about that book, I learned about a new Star Wars novel called Heir to the Empire & I went on to buy the trilogy in paperback as they came out. I bought & borrowed a few more of the new books & graphic novels & while some of those are still among my favorites today (especially the Tales of the Jedi comics), eventually I stopped. I didn’t enjoy all of it enough to spend what little money I had as a teenager & was probably more interested in video games than reading at that point.
Soon, I was off to university & adult life kicked off & while I did become more of a reader over the years, it wasn’t until the early 2010s - my early thirties - that I really started to read Star Wars books & comics again. I dabbled mostly with prequel era & Old Republic era but when the Canon reboot was announced in 2014, I knew I wanted to keep up this time which, notwithstanding the occasional reading slump & catch-up project, I’ve managed to do.
PART 3: Exploring into Star Wars Literature.
Figu: Brilliant! When I’m looking for the next Star Wars read, you’re the first person that pops into my mind! Now, about that gorgeous library of yours—what’s the story behind it, & when will you be adopting us into your cabin?
Jonny: Haha! My Star Wars library has moved around a lot as it has grown & as we have moved house over the years. For a while, all of my Legends collection was in boxes. Then in our last house, it joined my new Canon collection on some new shelves in the garage that I used as a home gym.
In recent years, in the house we currently live in, it has filled many shelves in my home office, which has itself relocated from inside the house to a cabin in the garden. I arrange the shelves chronologically, as far as possible. Placement is dictated by when the “present” of the main story ends, rather than when it begins. I spend more time thinking about the minutiae of this than is probably reasonable for a 46-year old man with responsibilities.
I work for myself these days, so I can sometimes take time for myself & read in the cabin. Though most days I’m too busy either with actual work or working on the community podcast. We have an ambitious schedule, usually 2 or more episodes per week, so it takes a lot of planning. The podcast absolutely gets in the way of my reading time, but at least the cabin library doubles as a podcast studio away from the house!
Figu: I consider myself lucky to squeeze in our chats between your packed schedule! Oh, by the way—have you counted how many books you have in that mega-Ossus-library of yours? Which ones have you read so far?
Jonny: I’ve read, played or listened to every single piece of story content in the new Canon, except for some short stories, a couple of junior novelizations, comic adaptations of live action & whichever comics haven’t made it to trade paperback yet.
My Canon shelves have around 130 books (that includes novels, novelizations & short story collections), more than 160 trade paperback comic volumes (that includes some comics or manga adaptations of other material).
In the last year or two I’ve occasionally received a digital advance reader copy (ARC) or a physical copy of a book from publishers, but it’s very sporadic, so I almost always buy my own copies. In some ways I prefer receiving the book when everyone else does. Occasionally, I do a giveaway on Instagram of duplicates that I end up with. It would be nice to get more freebies, but most of the publishers don’t reply to my emails!
My Legends collection is much smaller. I have all of the Old Republic era (from Dawn of the Jedi to Bane) in hardback where available, plus a mixture of Dark Horse comics omnibuses & trade paperbacks. I have most of the prequel era similarly collected, with some notable exceptions such as the Republic Commando series. I have a shelf of post-Return of the Jedi paperbacks, plus a growing number of the Essential Legends paperbacks.
Figu: I love some of the ones you mentioned! Okay, this is tough—people always ask me for my favorite book or game, & it's like asking what to have for dinner! What about you, do you have any special favorites?
Jonny: That’s right! There’s so much & I tend not to pick favorites. I don’t really see them in competition with each other. They all do different things.
Some of them have goofy humor. Some of them are dealing with combat trauma. Some of them are about political machinations and some of them are just about good versus evil and laser swords. It’s all good to me.
There are definitely stories that I’ve connected with more as I’ve discovered them, & those that I’ve struggled with. But so often I find that something I didn’t particularly enjoy first time become a much-loved story next time around.
So much of our experience of stories is about who we are when we read them. So often “it’s not you, it’s me” is true when it comes to our responses to art. Like Luke & the cave on Dagobah, we often encounter what we bring in with us.
Figu: Oh wait, the bounty hunters are chasing me for more info! We both know the Star Wars universe is massive—how would you recommend someone new to the galaxy dive into the books or reading materials?
Jonny: True! We’re now 10 years into the new Canon & already the volume of materials must be so daunting for folks.
The first thing to say has to be – don’t worry about trying to read it all chronologically. It wasn’t written that way & the continuing publishing efforts don’t work that way; you’ll only end up backtracking in the timeline to read some new book or comic eventually anyway.
Pick an era, a character or type of character that you’re interested in.
If the Prequels are more your thing, the recent The Living Force (about the Jedi Council) is great. Clone Wars fans might enjoy Brotherhood, Dark Disciple or Inquisitor: Rise of the Red Blade.
If you’re a fan of the Original Trilogy, try Lost Stars, which follows a group of characters before, through & after the main events of that trilogy. It remains one of the most accessible Star Wars novels for folk new to the books.
If you want the fuller story of how the Empire finally fell between the Battle of Endor & the Battle of Jakku, the Aftermath trilogy & the Alphabet Squadron have you covered. And you can take a break for Han & Leia’s wedding & honeymoon in The Princess and the Scoundrel.
If you want some background on the Sequel era, Shadow of the Sith, Bloodline and Phasma are excellent. And if you’re hungry for more stories set during the sequel era, Resistance Reborn & Black Spire are waiting for you.
If you’re after completely new to storytelling then jump into The High Republic. And that stuff – as a fairly coherent & contained project - you can choose to read chronologically or in publication order & it probably works just as well either way.
But to get the best from it, you really need to be reading everything; the adult novels, junior novels, YA, various comic series & miniseries and the occasional audio drama. It’s a lot, but it’s very good.
If you want to dive into Legends & want something really different, try the Dawn of the Jedi novel & comics, the Tales of the Jedi comics or the Knight Errant novel & comics. And of course, the Darth Bane trilogy is very good. (Yes, even the dude bros are right about that.)
If you want to get a flavor for what the post-Return of the Jedi Legends situation is, I can only recommend from the few that I’ve read. The Heir to the Empire trilogy probably is key reading, while the Dark Empire comic series contains some big story moments. And the Jedi Academy trilogy shows you the Legends version of Luke setting up his Jedi school.
The other thing that I would recommend – and I know that social media isn’t everyone’s favorite thing – is to seek out positive fan communities online. My preferred space is on Instagram, there’s a superb community there sharing thoughts, opinions & information. I learned about some stories I had missed that way in my early days there. We all started somewhere & the community is so welcoming & friendly. If they use & follow hashtag #StarWarsBookCommunity, they’ll soon find lots of other amazing folks sharing their journeys.
PART 4: Additional Brain-picking.
Figu: I really appreciate you sharing your wisdom & knowledge! Stretching a little further, this next question is something that often comes up among Star Wars fans, especially for those who were there during the transition. I’d love to hear your thoughts on Canon vs. Legends. How do you approach them both?
Jonny: Ah, that’s right! There definitely are some noticeable differences between the Canon & Legends, & not just in the details of the story.
The Legends continuity began at a time when the perception was that the appeal of Star Wars was fairly narrow. And the way those books were written reflected that. The representation of women is – at least with hindsight – not great in some of those books. Are there some strong female characters? Sure. But there are also examples of casual sexism & sexualization's that wouldn’t fly today. And of course representation for queer folk & PoC has vastly improved as well.
But it’s not just about representation. There has been a concerted effort in the new Canon to publish different kinds of stories. The Legends continuity is very much focused on telling action adventure stories, usually with a fairly generic narrative style common to licensed fiction of the time. They tried hard to feel like Star Wars movies but they didn’t always hit that mark for me as a teenager reading them; inevitably you hit a wall because it has to be paced like a novel, not a 2-hour movie.
Personally, I think that one impact of all that was to narrow their appeal to folk who both already like Star Wars & who like to read those sorts of books. I know that the style would slowly change over time, but that certainly impacted my decision to drop out from reading them in the 1990s.
The new Canon throws the net wider. The publishing team have dared to hire writers who bring their own writing style to the work. Some fans of the older books balked at this. (Look, for example, at the reception from some in those quarters to Chuck Wendig’s Aftermath books.) But what it has given us is a body of work written for & appealing to people who like to read books. The books are less concerned with trying to feel like a Star Wars movie & more concerned with being good books.
The fact that they are written in a variety of styles by a diverse pool of writers who bring a lot of interesting stuff to the table & consequently appeal to a wider group of readers, is such an asset to the Canon. I’m totally onboard with it.
Figu: Interesting! Some people tend to avoid Legends/Expanded Universe, finding it either confusing or irrelevant. I was there during the transition & actually enjoyed both separately. Do you recommend that Star Wars fans explore Legends as well, or would you suggest they focus solely on Canon?
Jonny: The Canon reboot has allowed me to go back & enjoy the Legends continuity more. And I’m looking forward to continuing to discover all of the stories that I missed over the years. It’s a fascinating alternate universe. As someone who loves lore & seeing how ideas evolve over time, it’s always interesting to read the stories that inspire many aspects of the new Canon.
I would never discourage anyone from reading Legends. The more I read of it, the more I realize that there is great stuff in there that I missed over the years. The Essential Legends novel collection is a great way to jump straight into some of the more well-regarded or influential titles in that continuity.
Figu: I love that they’re still re-publishing the Legends materials these days, making them far easier & more accessible to everyone. Now, it makes me wonder—does the show often retcon the Canon books? How do you consume both if there’s conflicting content?
Jonny: As for canon continuity… it’s never going to be perfect, & not just because where the shows & the books present things differently. For example, early on in the new Canon we got two conflicting reports about where and when Ben Solo was conceived, for example. (Though perhaps we explain that away by agreeing that Leia was probably right & that Han, bless him, doesn’t understand human gestation periods.) But there are a number of continuity snags here & there within the books & comics themselves.
As someone who invests a lot of time & money in the published Canon, yes it can be a little frustrating when certain creatives on the TV side seem to not care too much about continuity. But then Dave Filoni is only doing what he learned from George Lucas when they worked together on the original run of The Clone Wars; don’t let the books & comics get in the way of the story you want to tell. I guess I respect that artistic stance.
And, ultimately, very few of the TV versus publishing contradictions amount to much. The broad strokes of the stories are intact. By the end of the Ahsoka novel, she has defeated an Inquisitor, made new lightsabers and made contact with Bail Organa to get back into the game. The corresponding episode of Tales of the Jedi tells that story.
As Tia Dalma says in the Pirates of the Caribbean movies “Same story, different version. And all of them are true!” Each version is the story as written by a particular person from a particular point of view. Just as human history often differs in differing accounts, the same is true in the galaxy far, far away.
And that’s before we even get to the stories that are intentionally unreliable in their details, such as elements of The Legends of Luke Skywalker or the From a Certain Point of View collections (which contain stories that are often mutually contradictory).
Ultimately, we just have to accept – as Legends readers had to once George Lucas started to ignore the stories they loved – that the Canon is an evolving thing. The timeline & history for the Clone Wars that Timothy Zahn created for Heir to the Empire was totally overwritten by George Lucas the moment The Phantom Menace came out; the Legends authors were constantly having to retcon & dance around Lucas’ output from that point onwards.
So far, in my view, the new Canon is doing a better job of presenting a coherent story with minimum of significant contradictions. The overall story is aligned, the timeline hasn’t had to be revised or retconned & no-one has killed Even Piell twice (yet)!
Figu: One thing I love about the Star Wars franchise is that there’s always something for everyone, & there's always something new to explore. But that also means we have a pretty diverse fanbase with a mix of opinions (you know exactly what I mean!). What’s your perspective on this?
Jonny: I still have to go back to Yoda’s advice to Luke at the cave on Dagobah — You encounter what you take in with you. That is all the more true online, where so much of what we see is driven by algorithms that learn from our actions.
Or, to put it another way by borrowing wisdom from another Jedi Master. Your focus determines your reality. If you are seeking out and creating positivity, you will find that reflected all around you.
Conversely, if you watch YouTube videos about how Kathleen Kennedy is the antichrist & wokeness is killing Star Wars, then don’t be surprised if you’re not finding yourself surrounded by the proof that Star Wars is in great health, i.e. the fans who actually like Star Wars & who are busy ignoring that other nonsense while they shared their joy for it.
Because, to bring us to an analogy from the Sequel era, that’s how we win as fans. That’s how we find satisfaction in this franchise. Not by fighting what we hate. But by saving what we love. When we hold close & hold up the things we love, we have a better time & create better, more healthy spaces for the community to occupy & grow.
PART 5: Wrapping Up!
Figu: I’ve really enjoyed our exchange—it feels like we’ve only scratched the surface! Before we wrap-up this round, I’ve got a question: Do you read books outside of Star Wars?
Jonny: I try to read non-Star Wars books, but it is hard to find the time. As a young adult working in bookshops I read a lot of Douglas Coupland, Jack Kerouac and smatterings of literary fiction by folk like Murakami. I’ve since come to realize that those aren’t the only types of books that make you think about the world & human experiences.
Various current projects that are in various stages at the moment include Terry Pratchett’s Discworld series (which I’m doing as a buddy read with someone), the Dune books, Ian Fleming’s original James Bond novels and a trot through a variety of books adapting or inspired by Lewis Carroll’s books Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking Glass. I’ve also got a stack of non-Star Wars books by Star Wars authors that is begging for attention.
Figu: Nice! Since my Instagram page mostly covers hobby stuff, I’ve gotta also ask—do you happen to have other hobbies or interests?
Jonny: Reading is my main hobby. I occasionally dive back into video games, though very selectively & often replaying things that I already love. I’m not very crafty, but I usually knit a scarf or two every year & I’m teaching myself to use a sewing machine because of my growing interest in cosplay. (That Jedi Librarian costume isn’t going to make itself!)
I also write fiction for fun, but most of it stays on my computer away from the public. I have an ongoing fanfic project set in the Star Wars universe. The main idea is a series of stories in different styles & lengths (middle grade, YA, adult, short stories, novellas & more) all about the long life of an original character who lives through the entire period of the Skywalker saga.
I rushed a few short pieces of that out into the world ahead of Celebration last year because I was cosplaying as the main character, but I’ve struggled to find the time to finish & edit some of the longer work that I had planned in that series. Every few months I find the time to bash out another 20,000 words or so.
In the spring & summer I love to go for long walks in the hills, often on my own. Long 12 hours+ walks, with just my own thoughts (or an audiobook) & the landscape for company. I live about an hour away from the Mourne Mountains in Northern Ireland, one of my favorite places in the world. It’s not a big area, but it’s accessible & lovely, even if it rains a lot & you end up walking in a cloud.
Figu: Oh wow, that’s amazing! Hope I get to see more of your side projects next time! Awh, man… time’s running short, & those around the Cantina are starting to chase us out. I know many citizens in the galaxy want to keep in touch—how do we reach you?
Jonny: Folks can find me on Instagram (or Threads) as @JournalsOfTheWhills & (much less frequently) on Twitter as @JournalsWhills. Come & say hello!
I can regularly be heard talking about Star Wars on the Star Wars Book Community Podcast. You can subscribe to that on all major (& lots of smaller) podcast platforms.
We usually put out a Canon Catch-Up episode every week. On that show, we go through the new Canon in publication order & we’re currently talking about the releases from spring/summer 2016.
Fortnightly, we have a Legends Library show, which is the show I spend most time on. We’re going through the Legends timeline in chronological order. We’ve recently reached the Darth Bane novels. At that rate of progress, we should be talking about the Clone Wars stories this time next year. Every month, there’s a Comics Round-Up, going through the month’s comic releases.
In between all of that we have author interviews, discussions about shows, roundtables about the latest novels, conversations with academics who write about Star Wars & more, all featuring many of our friends from across the Star Wars book and comic fan community online.
Figu: Awesome! Many thanks again, Jonny, for sharing your insights with the wholesome Star Wars community, fellow hobbyists & readers! Hope we have more chat sessions in the future; I always enjoy our exchange!
Jonny: This was fun! I always enjoy thinking, talking & speculating about Star Wars. Thanks for the chat, Figu !! 😄
Cheers! I’m still waiting for the VIP invite *ehem* to the Cabin Library.. And to everyone else, if you’ve read this far:
See you again in the galaxy far, far away next time! 😍💫 —xoxo, figu